2006-04-06 [Kitara Softpaw]: Hmm....I think that Fantasy may get results and sad also. But I just wanted to suggest that maybe you should define the categories more clearly, especially if you're going to add new ones. And maybe make a statement somewhere that you could try a poem in multiple categories as long as it only dueled in one category at a time. Because some people may be willing to re-enter their poem after a loss into a perhaps more suitable category where they think it might do better. After all, some poems do fit into more than one of the categories......*shrugs* It's just a suggestion

2006-04-07 [Askoga]: What do you mean, define them more clearly? Note that if they're too defined, we will have fewer submissions in each. Also, they're mostly self-explanitory, don't you think? Dark and Sad would have to be separated, of course, but right now they're the same category. Just as Controversial, Deep Thoughts, and To Make You Think are the same category right now, and Sci-Fi and Fantasy would be the same category if I bring back Fantasy. Some of the categories have to be broad, because of our limited number of categories. However, if you think they're too broad, you're welcome to suggest a way to fix it, without making it so narrow that only one genre poem would fit.

2006-04-07 [Askoga]: For example, To Make You Think *must* be able to also have Controversial and Deep Thoughts poems in it (though Deep Thoughts was always similar to To Make You Think, anyway). I know, some poems don't really seem to fit into the categories we force them to go into now, but that's because we had to combine many of the categories, some of which didn't mesh as easily as we might have liked.

2006-04-07 [Askoga]: As for resubmitting poetry, we encourage that a poem be submitted into the category it best fits the first time. Thus, if it's resubmitted into a different category (which, as I told you once, is allowed) would mean that it doesn't fit as well. We are lenient on that, but as we get more categories, I might begin sending messages to poets who have submitted a poem that I think would fit better elsewhere, and ask them if it might be moved to that category instead. It's something I've been thinking of, as we've had a few inappropriately-placed poems (in my humble opinon) so far, though I could see why the poet placed them where they did.

2006-04-07 [Moorn]: I tend to think that final placement should be up to the crew of the arena anyway, Askoga. *nods* Informing the poets and just moving them may be the way to go, may make things easier for all involved. As for the categories, I think they're quite well-defined. My only trouble spot is with jovial and humor being mushed. A lot of people seem to think jovial just means funny, which it doesn't. It means joyful, jubilant. *nodzilla*

2006-04-07 [Kitara Softpaw]: *sighs* I didn't think they're too broad. I just think that if you add new categories that may be similar, like Sad and Dark, you have to make a clear distinction. Yesh, that is a problem with Jovial that I've noted. Maybe they need reseperated?? And yes, I know ti's allowed Askoga, I'm the one that asked. ^^

2006-04-07 [Askoga]: As we re-add categories, I'll deffinitely separate their guidelines. On the About the Categories page, it's obvious (to me, at least) that parts of some deffinitions were added later. Humor and Jovial could be separated again, if people seem interested enough in it. Right now, we get most poems in Dark, and since I don't have the time to keep up all of the original categories, and I don't have enough staff willing and able to take up more categories, I'm only going to add one or two categories at a time.

2006-04-07 [Askoga]: You guys are bringing up good points, don't you think for a moment that I'm not listening to you, for I know that most of what I've replied with is arguments, it's just that some of this is stuff I've already considered, and I used the same (or similar) arguments the first time around. Though....to me, the idea of separating the guidelines for Dark and Sad (or whichever categories I separate) logically followed separating the categories themselves. Perhaps because I saw the Arena back when it still had more categories than it does now, and I watched the guidelines be meshed in the first place.

2006-04-07 [Askoga]: Moorn, I'll take into consideration your definition of Jovial when I do separate those two categories. It's good to make the distinction clear to everyone, yup. May I put your words (joyful and jubilant) in the definition, to clear things up for others? I think I will start re-placing poems that I think are misplaced. After asking the poet's permission, of course. Now, I just wish I could get my three staff members to join this discussion......

2006-04-07 [Kitara Softpaw]: That's true. I never saw the original Arena. Haha, too bad your staff hasn't suggested yet. ^.- I'd volunteer but I couldn't get on every week...

2006-04-09 [Moorn]: Well, sure, you can, but it will probably be a while before enough submissions go into that catergory. *nods*

2006-04-11 [Kitara Softpaw]: It took awhile for the Arena to regain it's popularity too. Maybe we should hold off on the creation of new categories for a short time, until we are more...er, active? Or we could have a poll on the homepage about which categories the duealists would like to see...since everyone doesn't watch this page.

2006-04-12 [Askoga]: That's an idea. And perhaps you're right, and I shouldn't add new categories just yet. I'll consider the poll idea, too. Though, the huge lack of response, even on the main page, rather discourages me.

2006-04-18 [Kitara Softpaw]: True. But maybe people just don't read the comments. I don't really read the comments at some of my wiki's because I lose my place. And I'd make sure to advertise the poll on my homepage.

2006-07-23 [Kitara Softpaw]: I think moving the date to Saturday is okay with me, and if it helps keep the EWPDA more active, then I'm all for it.

2006-07-24 [Askoga]: Well, since you're the only one who has responded, in a little over a week since I made the suggestion, I guess next week I'm updating on Saturday. Yay!

2006-07-24 [Kitara Softpaw]: YAY! Well, you will be updating if anyone actually votes and the poems aren't tied anymore.

2006-07-24 [Askoga]: Aye, that's so.

2006-08-19 [Askoga]: Oh my! If our two retired staff members were to both return, I would suddenly be out of a job. All of the categories are covered, and I only head one. Thanks everyone!

2006-08-24 [Askoga]: Volunteers would be much appreciated.... I'm getting anxious, worrying about it, as time goes by, mates.

2006-08-26 [SeLoCeS]: i can cover you for the 26th if you still need someone for love category

2006-08-26 [Kitara Softpaw]: Naturally, the one day I can't do it

2006-09-03 [Jovial]: the jovial site did not have any new poems added so i just extended the date of the competition

2006-09-04 [Askoga]: If there are not two poems that can duel, then the poem should be moved to the "Awaiting Challengers" list, below the "Awaiting Sunday" and the "Dueling" lists. I will move it this week, but thank you for the update.

2006-10-04 [Kitara Softpaw]: i read this page

2006-10-05 [SeLoCeS]: i read it too

2006-10-06 [crowdel]: me too

2006-10-06 [Ergraf]: Allright I'm just making sure running through, checking everything that needs to be checked

2006-10-14 [SeLoCeS]: alls ok with me though i do hope askoga will be joining us again, not saying your not doin a great job Ergraf just dont wish to loose a good admin member, if you know what i mean

2006-10-15 [Askoga]: Sorry about not being here, mates, and sorry about giving you all no warning. I will probably not be able to be admin again any time soon, because I have only very rare access to the 'net. Many of you have probably realized this by now. I hope that all of you fare well.

2006-10-22 [Blaithin]: My difficulty updating won't be helped by moving the day to Sunday. The main problem is that I don't have time on weekends either because I've got home which has no semblance of an internet connection or I'm at work for long stretches of time and when I get home I have hours of homework.

2006-10-22 [KainVM]: Well if you feel you can't keep up with it. I could let you off of worrying about it. I'm mostly concerned about the staff as a whole. I've seen that most everyone has more time on sundays than saturday. See my meaning? Anyway, I thank you for your input! But again, if you feel you can not keep up with the updates because of your irl, then forget about the updates and deal with your life. All things considered it is more important than the net aye?

2006-10-22 [SeLoCeS]: man you did it again this week i go to update and its done lol

2006-10-23 [KainVM]: =P Hey 9PM rolls around if it isn't updated I whip it out! At least thats how I've always perceived it should be done. It's how Askoga told me it should be done so why not? Lol

2006-10-26 [Moorn]: Alright, things seem more or less stable here now. Since helping was only a favor to [Askoga] on my part I think I can leave the arena to all of you. Good luck with it.

2006-10-29 [Ergraf]: Allright Moorn. Thanks for helping. I'll take her Cat now too.

2006-10-30 [crowdel]: hey kain i have jovial i was going to take care of it tonight on sunday when i got in because that would have been the first time i would have seen it please allow people time to do their own work i understand that you want to be in charge and help but keep in mind people have responsibility here besides you give a warning to a guy before you unceremoniously do their job for them i would not make such a fuss normally but i feel obliged as i have had no work to do for the past month on the wiki and like doing my category job

2006-10-30 [KainVM]: Understandable. Its just been drilled into my thought processing though that I should update things if they haven't been looked at. Update day is still Saturday by the by, though I haven't heard much about changing it back to Sundays so people have a chance to update more.

2006-10-30 [Blaithin]: Another thing Kain, perhaps you should look less at speed and more at procedure. I've noticed polls that haven't been submitted and therefore can't be voted on as well as there aren't being any messages set out as far as I know. Generally we send a message inforing the duelist their poem is dueling (first time or again) as well as message them informing whether they'be moved on or been defeated. None of this has been done to my understanding.

2006-10-31 [Kitara Softpaw]: No, none of this has been done. I barely remember that my poem was in a cat until i looked at the cat to vote - and one of the poem cats didn't have a poll u[p

2006-10-31 [KainVM]: Really? Could have sworn that polls were up for the ones I edited. If your talking about the poll in Realistic, I know SeLoCeS has been actively trying to edit her cat. I noticed and told her that she forgot to change the poems and the poll but... if theres another I probably forgot. I'm only human people. I also recall sending and giving messages on. If your just going to criticize me, then try making the updates on Saturdays please. LIKE I've been stressing to you all, if updating on Saturday is too improbable, then TELL me to move it back to Sunday so it is more Convenient for you to update. Rather than be critical for things I'm doing, that seems like a more logical thing to think about and inform me of because if your simply going to continually find reasons to rip on me then that to me says your just a little angry about something that I'm not going to put my finger on.

2006-10-31 [Kitara Softpaw]: No, they were only trying to help you out. They weren't being rude. Blaith especially. They're your staff - it's their job to keep you up-to-date. And I did not recieve a msg that my poem was dueling, so I don't know.

2006-10-31 [Blaithin]: I never received a message about my poem either and I can't remember which category I seen the unfinished poll in. Also I wasn't trying to critisize you Kain, I'm just pointing things out so that you can fix them in the future. I know that I haven't been on top of my categories at all lately and I also know that I have valid reasons pertaining to real life which always comes before ET. I have a list of priorities and I know which order they go in so turning my lack of updating around on me simply because you felt I was demeaning you is rather pointless. If you would rather I don't help you improve then fine, I'll just go around fixing your mistakes whenever possible :)

2006-10-31 [KainVM]: Thats fine. We're staff here Blaithin. We're suppose to help eachother by making sure everythings running properly. Making little comments about who did what, or how something is done is even more pointless than saying what I said. Yes Life comes before the net. So when I leave things out its because I have a 6 month old Nephew to help take care of. Its what I do for my part of rent around here. As well as house maintenance. To top that off I have A.D.D. so pretty much the attention span of a kitten. If I can't focus on something I totally forget everything needing to be done. And Secondly aside from that I was not turning it on you, I was REMINDING you that I've been trying to get everyone to give me their opinion on whether or not Updates should be sunday or saturday. I mean seriously! I put a Notice up asking you all to give me your input but there's been nothing at all so far! C'mon people work with me! I'm trying to HELP you do what you want while compensating for what happens in your daily lives!

2006-10-31 [KainVM]: Which... probably explains my rancid sentence structure. Good lord.

2006-10-31 [SeLoCeS]: actually realistic was tied and was continued but you have now not given those people dueling a true duel as it was already sorted and now you have gone changin things and mucked realistic up for this week. and considering the last two weeks when i have come in to do my cat and you had not even waited to give those in a different time zone a chance to update. matey we love that you want to help but you need to respect those who are also admin here and we also understand you have just come back to us after a long break or whatever but if you let us do our jobs then this wouldnt be such a stress and life online and off wouldnt get so crazy. and i agree we need to work together but that means you too.

2006-10-31 [crowdel]: here here its a point i mentioned before briefly in my last comment if you see something that is not been updated fully fix it but if the work had not been done allow your admin an opportunity to do the work instead of you. we all like to be part of a team and when one person takes the burden of trying to do all the work be it intentional or not it hurts the entire group. I honestly feel that it may be to everyones best interest to have a list of cats at the top of the page with each admin put on a category or two if they wish so in any case we may be able to message that person if we do not notice that person had done their job one week and it could give you someone to relay back to in each category to make it less of a burden on you to try and do everything

2006-10-31 [KainVM]: Well, seems we need to be more in contact with eachother. The house's are there for a reason everyone. We're not suppose to use our main accounts to edit anything. Things are getting just a little out of hand with the finger pointing though. People saying things like this and that isn't done, well here's a bit of helpful news. We're all here as staff. We're suppose to help each other and fix mistakes made. I made a bad by taking the finger pointing in excess, and I jumped the figurative gun. That I apologize for, but what else am I suppose to do, smile at the pointing, leave it and just walk away from doing what should be done? Or what I believe should have been done? I sent something to SeLoCeS about what was up with the category trying to clarify what was up. Logically I should have just ignored it but with the constant baggering, what can be done? Pressure gets the wrong results people, we need to talk more, and thats what I've been trying to do with you, in asking if updates should be changed to fit your schedules. So, I don't know if I can word this correctly on a posting, instead of telling ME how bad I've been doing, lets focus on what I've been trying to do the whole time. Namely getting in touch with my staff about their cats, and keep things like this from happening.

2006-10-31 [Blaithin]: Ok, lets get some clarification going since it's not sinking in. I apologize in advance to anyone who thinks I may be yelling or taking this to excession but it seems that caps and bold is needed to convey this message. THERE IS NO FINGER POINTING GOING ON!! It accomplishes nothing for us to go around fixing your mistakes for you since then you wouldn't realize that you were missing an essential part of the system. It isn't our job to fix your errors, it's our job to update our categories if and when we can. If you think we're pointing fingers at you fine, but that still doesn't change anything. If you want I can find the link for the directions on how to renew duels and that way you can't try playing the guilt card on us.

Now, as for calling us 'your staff'. If you're going to do that you're going to have to realize some key points. One being that if we're your staff then you're our boss meaning we bring to you problems and point out errors. It's up to you to handle them, not turn on us. Being the boss means more responsibility, if you can't handle a little heat then tell us now. It's not our job nor inclination to make you feel good and all powerful, it's our job to run this wiki smoothly when we are able. Considering we haven't had time to do that lately and it's been left to you it then falls to us to point out pieces that need alteration or fixing. That's what a team does. Take it or leave it.

2006-11-01 [SeLoCeS]: good points i believe are very true and matey yes you sent me a message but no you didnt wait for a reply and therefor the communication was not waited for eg if you dont wait for a reply then that isnt communication. Had you waited you and i would not have any problems to talk about instead realistic would be running smoothly. Now i am willing to admit that i use my main account to change things over but hello i have a life too just like you pointed out about yourself not a few comments ago sometimes it is quicker. But i will try not to break that rule again. and please wait for replies to your messages before you act otherwise the wrong result will happen and people get upset. cheers

2006-11-01 [Kitara Softpaw]: Blaith, you took the words right out of my mouth, thank you. And even 'skoga sometimes updated from her main account. Sometimes you don't have the time neccessary to log in and out of accounts.

2006-11-02 [crowdel]: here here and another thing kain I dont intend to annoy you but the facts presented by blaith are right and furthermore you need to stop holding the "i asked you if you wanted to change the day to update cats to sunday" card on us it is old and i am sick of it. You apparently did not even wait for everyones response to the question before you made a decision and i still believe that my idea of a list of cats and admins to those cats is a phenomenal idea. its as blaith said we are YOUR staff and as such WE need to report to YOU so if you are feeling you are having trouble with a cat then you will be able to talk to "your staff" where we can correct the problems. we all have lives and we try to get here asap on the weekend to update cats but it is not always easy. calm down about it and let "your staff" do the work that they volunteered for.

2006-11-03 [Moorn]: Ohh... cats, now I get it. Categories. 

People, bickering is bad for business. Trust me, few people know more about wiki-fighting than me and I know from vast experience that it never helps anyone. So, as an impartial, uh, party, allow me to make a few suggestions.

1. Eliminate the title of administrator and retire my old [Ergraf] house. Yup, I donated it, because way back in the day a worker changed one of the house passwords, and it was thought that a master house was needed. Now that it's divisive, I suggest you do away with it and each person considers hirself equal. No more boss, no more problems. Each person picks up the responsibility of cat management in equal measure.

2. Change the update day from Saturday to "The Weekend" (Saturday/Sunday) to allow two days for potential updating. Do not interfere with someone else's category until Sunday night in your time zone.

3. Have each person familiarized with updating procedures and do not deviate from it. When I joined, Tari Nenharma (who was boss at the time) took about two hours out of her schedule to train me and talk to me about the way things work and I never did it wrong. 

4. Poetry houses could be optional. Yes they are there for a reason, but sometimes its just a hassle to use them. In my opinion they ought to be kept, but making the work easier on the workers is probably the best way to increase productivity. Well, short of paying them.

5. Politeness. Nobody HAS to be here. Everyone here is a volunteer, giving their time and energy for a communal purpose. Treat them as such.

I love the arena, personally. I don't want to see it die, and infighting will kill it. So let's all agree to agree. Savvy?

2006-11-03 [KainVM]: If you all want. It's fine with me. The choice is yours, not mine.

2006-11-08 [Moorn]: For anyone who's interested, I've been chatting up some of the people over at WritersCo about possibly creating a spin-off poetry arena over there, to use the same format as this one. You're all welcome to have a looksie, or bug me about it, if you want. I'll be pimping the bejeezus out of this Elftown Arena there, too. Just thought you'd like to know!

2006-11-17 [KainVM]: Oh, on another note. I might be late to update tomorrow, so any staffers willing to update To Make You Think ..., Love..., and Dark Please do at around ...Errr... well its a bit much but please wait till 9 PM PST, (Pacific Time, GTM -08:00) Please? Thanks. Got family things going on and I really don't wanna miss updating, but if I get to it before you do, you'll know.

2006-11-18 [crowdel]: kain we are to put this simply the musketeers. all for one and one for all. Everyone understands that everyone else has other things to do and that is just fine. this is one of the things that makes me love being an admin more than anything else we look out for one another if one has a family thing go do it most of us dont mind picking up a little extra every now and then because chances are we will need someone else to do a little extra work for us in the future. dont sorry about it we are all comrades and bretheren of this wiki and we look out for each other i can pick up love... this week

2006-11-18 [KainVM]: Thank ye much Crowdel. I'll see if I can pick up what isn't chosen from my friends house where I'm currently staying for the weekend. I'm not sure I can, but in the rare event I can I will update. Thanks for the understanding. At least I didn't wait until the day OF updates eh? Just a day before lol

2006-11-18 [KainVM]: Or ehh, you can catch it before I do. That's cool too! Hah Heh ^_^; Wow.. that's embarrassing. Thank you SeLoCeS and Crowdel!

2006-11-19 [crowdel]: I think that Philisophical is covered in the to make you think cat as for ballad it could be covered however instead of calling it ballad make it sound more generic possibly such as simply music. of coarse if we were to intoduce a new cat it should be voted on first by the members and then have a test trial time of around a month or two just to be assured that it will be something that would be good to add to the site. i know that askoga wanted to add a few cats but due to lost interest they were disbanded and they appeared to be cats that would be highly interesting fantasy for example. Knowing this i dont thing we should rush into it it should be a longer process. And since i am writing i would like to thank seloces i am assuming if it was anybody else thank you but thanks to whoever did all the cats this week

2006-11-20 [SeLoCeS]: lol no thanks needed guys we all put in when we can :)

2006-11-22 [KainVM]: Yeah yeah. I think though Ballad and Phil are covered already though. Though it does turn gears again! Anyway... I KNOW for a fact I will be updating this weekend so! FEAR NOT! I will be here unless someone steals me again... I'll send you guys notice day of.

2006-11-25 [Ergraf]: I was stolen again @_@. I'll be updating right now though.

2006-11-28 [SeLoCeS]: sorry guys that i didnt update this weekend ive been really unwell and not online thankyou to whom ever did Realistic for me cheers

2006-11-29 [KainVM]: Sok SeLoCeS. You had my back when I was gone. I got yours. Askoga will be back relatively soon. By the start of next year. So... I'm announcing now. When she's back full time. I'm retiring and leaving entirely.

2006-12-02 [SeLoCeS]: hey guys i should let you know for the next four or five weeks i will be working in the real world for about 50 - 60 hrs a week i dont know how much time i will get to be here though i will try, so if anyone see's that i havent updated for a week please just jump on in and do it for me. well anyways cheers and thanks to those who help me out in the next few weeks.

2006-12-02 [SeLoCeS]: KainVM sorry to hear you will be leaving us again

2007-12-21 [KainVM]: OK... so since I'm not leaving... Here's some updates that are much needed, wow it's been a year since anyone's posted here... anyway. Updates. [Citrine] is our new staffer. welcome her to our estranged little family. She'll be doing anything possible to help us when she can. Updates will be changed to Sundays again, if there are any objections, concerns or complaints please voice. I don't want to make this change until those present give consent.

2007-12-24 [KainVM]: Crow... because of my work schedule... I can not, at all make updates on time. Lest I do them in the mornings, but at that time I'm too exhausted from work to do them.  And normally I'm dead asleep by then. So therein lies the problem. I only have availability at random times.